In celebration of International Women’s Day 2025, CMAE invited three of our esteemed female Certified Club Managers—Debbie Pern CCM, Debora Drago CCM, and Claire Llewellin-Davis CCM—to share their insights in a special Q&A. They discuss their career journeys, perspectives on women in club management, and ways to empower more women into leadership roles.
Pictured L-R – Debbie Pern CCM, Debora Drago CCM and Claire Llewellin-Davis CCM
What inspired you to pursue a career in club management?
Claire: I joined The Hurlingham Club after a career in the Army. I quickly discovered that this was an industry that I loved and looked for a professional qualification to support it and take my career to the next level. I discovered CMAE and never looked back!
Debbie: As a facilities manager at the Scottish Agricultural College, part of my remit was looking after a golf course. I quickly realised that I enjoyed the environment, enjoyed the people and in particular, enjoyed the challenge!
Debora: The short and simple answer would be MDP 1; when I joined the Army & Navy Club the Club Secretary Mr De Souza saw the passion I had for the job and the industry, thus advised me to join different Hospitality Associations and one of them was the CMAE.
My love for Hospitality and people has always been strong since an early age, while working in restaurants, hotels, and/or corporate events during my studies, but I always felt that something was missing. When I joined the Club industry it became evident that the missing piece was the lack of community and a sense of belonging which Private Members Club thrive for; as well as the opportunity to enjoy and create memorable experiences for members and staff which can be incredibly fulfilling – rewarding.
Another major factor for me in pursuing a career in Club Management was my leadership ambitions, traits I had since my first work experiences. One of the beauties of Club Management was the development of these skills in a dynamic, friendly environment that offers diverse career opportunities; and for someone like me who enjoys challenges and growth potential this was a refreshing, rewarding path!
How has education and certification played a role in your success?
Claire: The CMAE course, culminating in the CCM has filled the gaps in knowledge required to become a confident and well rounded GM. It has also provided a great network of like minded, fun individuals who understand, without explanation, the challenges we face on a daily basis. I’d wholeheartedly recommend it.
Debbie: Following the MDP pathway has opened so many doors for me, not only in the classroom where the education was invaluable, but networking with managers from all over the world ha given me the confidence and the longevity in the industry
Debora: In my case, having obtained a Hospitality and Master’s degree, completed several courses, gained revenue diplomas, undertaking and completing the extensive Management Development Programme was the right pathway to follow.
It equipped me with a more competitive edge, enhanced my professional credibility, helped me go through challenging times, consequentially strengthen my resilience: a skill highly required when working in a male dominated industry. It also aided in building the confidence and competence to thrive in my leadership role, as well as been able to make stronger strategic decisions.
In our industry, qualifications play a crucial part in demonstrating that an individual has the skills and knowledge required for specific roles. Thus, for me going through the challenging development and obtaining the CCM, a highly and globally recognised accreditation meant a lot for me and for other women in the industry. It demonstrates that we “women” can also excel in a traditionally male-dominated field.
What do you think are the biggest barriers preventing more women from entering club management, and how can we overcome them?
Claire: I think the adage ‘you can’t be what you can’t see’ probably plays a part so the more we can share an insight into who we are as female CCMs and what we do, the better.
Debbie: There is still a perception in golf clubs that it is a mans world, and this along with what can be described as sometimes being a hostile environment can put women off applying for club management positions. To overcome this and send out a positive message to all women looking to apply for Club management, we must promote it more.
Debora: Undesirably gender bias and stereotypes are still key barriers that prevent more women from entering club management. In many businesses women often face challenges in having their leadership abilities questioned. Fostering a culture of inclusion by addressing unconscious bias through training and awareness programme could help overcoming these hurdles.
It can be quite discouraging when women do not see other women in executive leadership positions. It makes women feel less confident about pursuing such roles, and at times many may not consider high positions as possibilities, due to inadequate representation in the field. Therefore, I truly believe in showcasing and promoting female role models in senior management positions; it could positively inspire more and more women to pursue these professions.
Sadly, it is still a reality that nowadays women feel they need to prove themselves more than their male counterparts to be seen as competent leaders. This, of course, leads to higher self-scrutiny and the constant need to outperform, which can be exhausting and consequentially discouraging from wanting to join the industry in the first place.
In my vision, promoting gender equality, creating supportive systems, and amplifying women’s voices in leadership will not only benefit the women in these roles but will also drive the overall success and growth of the industry we are in.
To actively overcome these barriers, we require a unified effort from all industries and society as a whole!
How can clubs and industry organizations better support and encourage women to step into leadership roles?
Claire: Recognition though workplace schemes is powerful, as is the allocation of bursaries for unrepresented groups. Fundamentally bringing females into the industry must start at grass root level.
Debbie: Education, education, education! Clubs must encourage female employees to apply for management positions.
Debora: I see many opportunities for Clubs to play a crucial role in supporting women in leadership. Establishing mentorship programs, setting clear diversity goals, fostering an inclusive workplace, and ensuring gender bias-free recruitment can all make a difference. Clubs should also challenge traditional views of leadership by valuing diverse leadership styles, including collaboration and empathy. By integrating these practices into daily operations, Clubs can create a more equitable environment that empowers women to step into management roles. While some companies are making progress, more Private Members Clubs must prioritize this issue, championing change from the top down.
What would you say to a young woman considering a career in club management but unsure if it’s the right path for her?
Claire: Life is short – if you think you might like it – just try it. There are so many other skills you gain through Club Management that it’s easy to transfer to many different roles if it’s not for you – such as F&B Management/ Hotel Management/ Event Management. I’m also a firm believer in the saying ‘ What’s for you, won’t go by you’.
Debbie: I would encourage to start at the bottom in a higher tier club and work her way up with internal/external promotions. I would also suggest she starts the MDP pathway as soon as she can.
Debora: Club management is a vast field with so many roles within it, therefore it is important to identify which aspects of it may excite you the most.
I think helping the young women generation understanding their own strengths, set of skills and passions, will guide them toward the right path within the field.
It’s also essential to break away from traditional gender norms—while the industry has been male-dominated, times are changing, and more women are stepping into leadership roles.
I would encourage a young woman to seek out mentors who can offer constructive advice and ask about their experiences. This is what I did myself, and I can assure you that hearing about their experiences and having their guidance provided me with valuable insights.
Career paths are rarely comparable, everyone journey is different so when in doubt it will be important to be reminded to focus on your own path, build a strong set of skills, and remain open to learning. Speaking from my experience with dedication and hard work, challenges can be navigated leading towards a fulfilling career.
In the end, it is about finding a profession that aligns with your own goals, values, and interests. If club management excites you what I would say is:
Don’t be afraid to take the leap – the industry needs diverse voices like ours!
